<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.4" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Premium Beer and Some Labeling Suggestions</title>
	<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/</link>
	<description>Quenching your thirst with sips, nips and tipples.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: jenny</title>
		<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-400</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 14:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-400</guid>
					<description>I totally agree that I will pay more for something from a small brewery.  Perhaps if breweries made people far away pay more for their beer, that would be a solution.  As it is, in my small city, I can't frequently get beer from small breweries outside the midwest, but I would pay more for their trouble of getting me their small run beers.  If I could order these beers off the web, for example, or but beer from them when in their town, I would be more than willing to give them my money.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to me there are more people who would love to support small breweries than there are small breweries looking for support.  This doesn't apply to breweries who already have public faces--bigger, well established microbreweries (Rogue, Dogfish, Pyramid), breweries with a pub (Steamworks, even RedHook pre-buyout).  But I have tried hard to visit small breweries whenever I am in a new town and many of those I've inquired about their beers never write me back, or do so months later.  I realize having a brewery is hard work, but customer service is important too.  It seems to me getting beer to as many customers as possible is more important in a business model than making a very expensive product that will appeal to only few people in your area.  I even think your expensive bottle idea would work if coupled with marketing and wide-range delivery/stocking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think a lot of local breweries would win many converts and word of mouth if only people could taste their beer once.  I have seen such conversion with something like Fin du Monde.  Even the opening of a good beerpub allows people to try beer they would have never tried.  Microbrews have a product that sells itself (hello!  Tasty! Alcoholic!).  If microbreweries would take advantage of that I think they would be more financially supported.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I agree with Brian that customer outreach and education is more important.  He's totally right--most people probably don't even know what a pilsner is, but they'd be able to see the difference between a maco and micro version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree that I will pay more for something from a small brewery.  Perhaps if breweries made people far away pay more for their beer, that would be a solution.  As it is, in my small city, I can&#8217;t frequently get beer from small breweries outside the midwest, but I would pay more for their trouble of getting me their small run beers.  If I could order these beers off the web, for example, or but beer from them when in their town, I would be more than willing to give them my money.</p>
<p>It seems to me there are more people who would love to support small breweries than there are small breweries looking for support.  This doesn&#8217;t apply to breweries who already have public faces&#8211;bigger, well established microbreweries (Rogue, Dogfish, Pyramid), breweries with a pub (Steamworks, even RedHook pre-buyout).  But I have tried hard to visit small breweries whenever I am in a new town and many of those I&#8217;ve inquired about their beers never write me back, or do so months later.  I realize having a brewery is hard work, but customer service is important too.  It seems to me getting beer to as many customers as possible is more important in a business model than making a very expensive product that will appeal to only few people in your area.  I even think your expensive bottle idea would work if coupled with marketing and wide-range delivery/stocking.</p>
<p>I think a lot of local breweries would win many converts and word of mouth if only people could taste their beer once.  I have seen such conversion with something like Fin du Monde.  Even the opening of a good beerpub allows people to try beer they would have never tried.  Microbrews have a product that sells itself (hello!  Tasty! Alcoholic!).  If microbreweries would take advantage of that I think they would be more financially supported.</p>
<p>So I agree with Brian that customer outreach and education is more important.  He&#8217;s totally right&#8211;most people probably don&#8217;t even know what a pilsner is, but they&#8217;d be able to see the difference between a maco and micro version.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Brian W</title>
		<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-399</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 14:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-399</guid>
					<description>Ok, good comments from DH and Jenny.  I still stick by my "build it and they will come" idea though.  Not necessarily $20 large format bottlings, but beers that are true to style, balanced.  Small breweries have the advantage of very fresh beer without having to take a lot of precautions for spoilage.  This means they can brew a much more flavorful lager or ale that puts the macrobreweries to shame.&lt;br /&gt;
The first step in educating the average consumer that you can't get a good six-pack for less than six bucks is to brew a pilsner that makes Bud taste like mineral water.  You won't convert anyone in the PBR vs Micro debate until you have a competing product.  Most macro drinkers consider micros too heavy, that's why I suggest pilsner.  I've seen microbrewed pilsner in the pacific northwest cost $10 for a six-pack...and well worth it.&lt;br /&gt;
Along the same lines, the hop-head trend isn't showing a beers style or winning over any macro drinkers either.&lt;br /&gt;
Once you show people that microbrews are not snobby or trendy and just as good as the mass produced stuff except fresh and local, THEN they'll be willing to explore other styles.  Until then, it'll continue to be a niche market and odd specialty brews will be a tough sell.&lt;br /&gt;
More often than not these days, people order beer by brand (Miller, Bud, Sam Adams, Pyramid, Fat Tire, Redhook) and in some cases...by brand then style.  This has created a great brand loyalty for the macros, but also diminished consumer knowledge.  In wine (the higher priced market) people order by style (varietal) then brand (winery).  Get people ordering beer by style first then brewery....not only will the small local breweries compete, it'll open up sales of all styles rather than the majority sales being pale lager/ale.  Do you think most redhook drinkers realize they're drinking ESB or know what an ESB is?  People know what Redhook is.  Once people learn what they like about an ESB, they'll find the one they like best and be willing to pay more for that particular beer.&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, the only reason small wineries can be more lucrative (most aren't very profitable) is if they get a following.  It's easier to gain a following in wine because people devote their tastes to the varietal, not the winery.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
imho...prohibition did more damage to the beer industry than anything else, and we're just now seeing the resurgence of beers as they used to be.  but I guess that's another topic entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, good comments from DH and Jenny.  I still stick by my &#8220;build it and they will come&#8221; idea though.  Not necessarily $20 large format bottlings, but beers that are true to style, balanced.  Small breweries have the advantage of very fresh beer without having to take a lot of precautions for spoilage.  This means they can brew a much more flavorful lager or ale that puts the macrobreweries to shame.<br />
The first step in educating the average consumer that you can&#8217;t get a good six-pack for less than six bucks is to brew a pilsner that makes Bud taste like mineral water.  You won&#8217;t convert anyone in the PBR vs Micro debate until you have a competing product.  Most macro drinkers consider micros too heavy, that&#8217;s why I suggest pilsner.  I&#8217;ve seen microbrewed pilsner in the pacific northwest cost $10 for a six-pack&#8230;and well worth it.<br />
Along the same lines, the hop-head trend isn&#8217;t showing a beers style or winning over any macro drinkers either.<br />
Once you show people that microbrews are not snobby or trendy and just as good as the mass produced stuff except fresh and local, THEN they&#8217;ll be willing to explore other styles.  Until then, it&#8217;ll continue to be a niche market and odd specialty brews will be a tough sell.<br />
More often than not these days, people order beer by brand (Miller, Bud, Sam Adams, Pyramid, Fat Tire, Redhook) and in some cases&#8230;by brand then style.  This has created a great brand loyalty for the macros, but also diminished consumer knowledge.  In wine (the higher priced market) people order by style (varietal) then brand (winery).  Get people ordering beer by style first then brewery&#8230;.not only will the small local breweries compete, it&#8217;ll open up sales of all styles rather than the majority sales being pale lager/ale.  Do you think most redhook drinkers realize they&#8217;re drinking ESB or know what an ESB is?  People know what Redhook is.  Once people learn what they like about an ESB, they&#8217;ll find the one they like best and be willing to pay more for that particular beer.<br />
By the way, the only reason small wineries can be more lucrative (most aren&#8217;t very profitable) is if they get a following.  It&#8217;s easier to gain a following in wine because people devote their tastes to the varietal, not the winery.</p>
<p>imho&#8230;prohibition did more damage to the beer industry than anything else, and we&#8217;re just now seeing the resurgence of beers as they used to be.  but I guess that&#8217;s another topic entirely.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Donavan Hall</title>
		<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-398</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 11:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-398</guid>
					<description>Jenny-I agree.  Excellent essay by the way.  I'm sure I'll be defending many of the same points you raised here in my future articles.  A couple of weeks back Stan Hieronymus in a comment here and on his own blog, Appellation Beer, made the point that quality doesn't scale with price.  I think this point is well known in beverage/food writer circles even if "the masses" haven't figured it out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our dialog might go a little further if I let you in on my goal.  The bottom line is that I'm trying to come up with a revenue solution for small breweries.  If running a small brewery was lucrative (say as lucrative as running a small winery) then I assume there would be more small breweries.  I want more small breweries so that local beer cultures become more varied, complex, and interesting.  (More to drink, more to write about.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I live in Long Island where I can hop in my car and within an hour be sipping a locally produced wine from any one of Long Island's thirty some odd wineries.  (How many wineries are on Long Island, Lenn?)  There are only five breweries on Long Island (not counting Brooklyn).  In ten years I want to see that number double.  To do that more money needs to be thrown at beer.  If that means exploiting the vanity of would-be beer snobs, then I think the price is worth it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expensive bottles of beer have a good profit to cost ratio for the producer assuming the expensive bottles can be sold.  To sell them, they must be of the highest quality and be labeled informatively.  As a beer evangelist, I'll do my best to help the breweries sell their expensive beer, but I need a little help from them in the form of helpful labels.  The real flaw in my argument (which I assume someone will spot eventually) is that the cost for producing a consistent quality expensive beer might narrow that profit to cost ratio and thus eliminate the financial incentive for producing a high end product.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other problem with my argument is Southampton Publick House.  Phil Markowski has been making high end beers in corked bottles for years, but it appears that Southampton's success is coming in the mass production and marketing of moderately priced ales and lagers in crown capped bottles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So maybe all we have learned is that there is a beer writer on Long Island who is willing to pay $20 for a bottle of beer and he doesn't want to be the only penguin jumping off the ice shelf into the stormy sea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenny-I agree.  Excellent essay by the way.  I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll be defending many of the same points you raised here in my future articles.  A couple of weeks back Stan Hieronymus in a comment here and on his own blog, Appellation Beer, made the point that quality doesn&#8217;t scale with price.  I think this point is well known in beverage/food writer circles even if &#8220;the masses&#8221; haven&#8217;t figured it out.</p>
<p>Our dialog might go a little further if I let you in on my goal.  The bottom line is that I&#8217;m trying to come up with a revenue solution for small breweries.  If running a small brewery was lucrative (say as lucrative as running a small winery) then I assume there would be more small breweries.  I want more small breweries so that local beer cultures become more varied, complex, and interesting.  (More to drink, more to write about.)</p>
<p>I live in Long Island where I can hop in my car and within an hour be sipping a locally produced wine from any one of Long Island&#8217;s thirty some odd wineries.  (How many wineries are on Long Island, Lenn?)  There are only five breweries on Long Island (not counting Brooklyn).  In ten years I want to see that number double.  To do that more money needs to be thrown at beer.  If that means exploiting the vanity of would-be beer snobs, then I think the price is worth it.</p>
<p>Expensive bottles of beer have a good profit to cost ratio for the producer assuming the expensive bottles can be sold.  To sell them, they must be of the highest quality and be labeled informatively.  As a beer evangelist, I&#8217;ll do my best to help the breweries sell their expensive beer, but I need a little help from them in the form of helpful labels.  The real flaw in my argument (which I assume someone will spot eventually) is that the cost for producing a consistent quality expensive beer might narrow that profit to cost ratio and thus eliminate the financial incentive for producing a high end product.</p>
<p>The other problem with my argument is Southampton Publick House.  Phil Markowski has been making high end beers in corked bottles for years, but it appears that Southampton&#8217;s success is coming in the mass production and marketing of moderately priced ales and lagers in crown capped bottles.</p>
<p>So maybe all we have learned is that there is a beer writer on Long Island who is willing to pay $20 for a bottle of beer and he doesn&#8217;t want to be the only penguin jumping off the ice shelf into the stormy sea.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: jenny</title>
		<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-397</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 09:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-397</guid>
					<description>I disagree.  I love expensive beer, no doubt.  But the majority of my beer money goes to beer in bars that can get kind of cask conditioned and odd brews on tap I can't get at home.  I think this is the case with most people--that they drink beer publicly more than privately.  No matter how much I love beer (which I do, I have a beverage blog), I will never ever spend 40 dollars on a bottle.  I will never ever spend 40 dollars on a bottle of wine, either, so it's not beverage snobbery.  Expense of liquor does not necessitate quality or positive experience.  I have had bottles of Rogue (which I am usually very pro) that were so bad, I'd honestly rather drink a PBR.  This is not to say I make a habit of drinking the latter, but that expensive beer experiments often are undrinkable.  Also, I don't have a lot of beer aficionado friends.  I honestly can't drink an expensive bottle that big, and so won't buy it.  Which is not to say you shouldn't have it, but to say it probably won't sell.  If even someone like me, as interested in new and exotic beer won't even buy it, that's a hard sell to the Miller Lite or even Stella crowd.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If beer manufacturers make beer this expensive, it may make beer drinking more "respected."  On that I agree.  It will also mean that beer drinking will have annoying beer snobs in the same way wine does (ie people more interesting in being seen owning, drinking and knowing things about the beverage, but not actually passionate about how they taste).  I mean take the example of a cork--corks aren't the best technology for saving beverages.  If there weren't so many wine snobs, wine producers could use screw tops or better yet bag in box.  But they know no one will buy it even though it is better, because it doesn't look like an expensive wine.  I'd rather taste the best possible beverage than make it appear I am drinking the most expensive possible one.  And I think with elevated prices for no reason comes this sort of snobbery.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am all for breweries coming up with as many diverse batches as possible, but I would rather they spend the time and money on how the beer tastes than on packaging and marketing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree.  I love expensive beer, no doubt.  But the majority of my beer money goes to beer in bars that can get kind of cask conditioned and odd brews on tap I can&#8217;t get at home.  I think this is the case with most people&#8211;that they drink beer publicly more than privately.  No matter how much I love beer (which I do, I have a beverage blog), I will never ever spend 40 dollars on a bottle.  I will never ever spend 40 dollars on a bottle of wine, either, so it&#8217;s not beverage snobbery.  Expense of liquor does not necessitate quality or positive experience.  I have had bottles of Rogue (which I am usually very pro) that were so bad, I&#8217;d honestly rather drink a PBR.  This is not to say I make a habit of drinking the latter, but that expensive beer experiments often are undrinkable.  Also, I don&#8217;t have a lot of beer aficionado friends.  I honestly can&#8217;t drink an expensive bottle that big, and so won&#8217;t buy it.  Which is not to say you shouldn&#8217;t have it, but to say it probably won&#8217;t sell.  If even someone like me, as interested in new and exotic beer won&#8217;t even buy it, that&#8217;s a hard sell to the Miller Lite or even Stella crowd.</p>
<p>If beer manufacturers make beer this expensive, it may make beer drinking more &#8220;respected.&#8221;  On that I agree.  It will also mean that beer drinking will have annoying beer snobs in the same way wine does (ie people more interesting in being seen owning, drinking and knowing things about the beverage, but not actually passionate about how they taste).  I mean take the example of a cork&#8211;corks aren&#8217;t the best technology for saving beverages.  If there weren&#8217;t so many wine snobs, wine producers could use screw tops or better yet bag in box.  But they know no one will buy it even though it is better, because it doesn&#8217;t look like an expensive wine.  I&#8217;d rather taste the best possible beverage than make it appear I am drinking the most expensive possible one.  And I think with elevated prices for no reason comes this sort of snobbery.</p>
<p>I am all for breweries coming up with as many diverse batches as possible, but I would rather they spend the time and money on how the beer tastes than on packaging and marketing.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Donavan Hall</title>
		<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-396</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 16:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-396</guid>
					<description>Brian- Thanks for the comment.  I'm flexible on the cork issue.  I'll go either way.  Personally, I don't mind a little cork-funk in my farmhouse ale or saison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian- Thanks for the comment.  I&#8217;m flexible on the cork issue.  I&#8217;ll go either way.  Personally, I don&#8217;t mind a little cork-funk in my farmhouse ale or saison.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Brian W.</title>
		<link>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-395</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 14:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thespiritworld.net/2006/05/23/labelingpremiumbeer/#comment-395</guid>
					<description>Agreed.  Sharing a large bottle between friends is a far different experience than splitting a six-pack.  If breweries make more complex beers, in large format, people will learn that it can be paired with food, opened for celebration, etc.  Just like Charles Shaw isn't in the same league as Robert Mondavi, the 12-oz pale ale would serve a different purpose than a 750-ml "limited release".  One point I do disagree on however, is that if any beer is built to last and could potentially be cellared for a few years it shouldn't be cork finished.  It's not worth risking any off flavors when crown caps are already well accepted with beer drinkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.  Sharing a large bottle between friends is a far different experience than splitting a six-pack.  If breweries make more complex beers, in large format, people will learn that it can be paired with food, opened for celebration, etc.  Just like Charles Shaw isn&#8217;t in the same league as Robert Mondavi, the 12-oz pale ale would serve a different purpose than a 750-ml &#8220;limited release&#8221;.  One point I do disagree on however, is that if any beer is built to last and could potentially be cellared for a few years it shouldn&#8217;t be cork finished.  It&#8217;s not worth risking any off flavors when crown caps are already well accepted with beer drinkers.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
